|  lotus9 | Nov 23, 2007 2:16am | Sharing an inspiring quote by Albert Schweitzer:
"We must never permit the voice of humanity within us to be silenced. It is man's sympathy with all creatures that first makes him truly a man." |
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|  animesh1978 | Dec 25, 2007 8:20am | | ^^^ that's too self-righteous. |
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|  zoskiaos | Dec 25, 2007 8:39am | "To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
"We manage to swallow flesh only because we do not think of the cruel and sinful thing that we do. Cruelty... is a fundamental sin, and admits of no arguments or nice distinctions. If only we do not allow our heart to grow callous, it protests against cruelty, is always clearly heard; and yet we go on perpetrating cruelties easily, merrily, all of us - in fact, anyone who does not join in is dubbed a crank." ~ Rabindranath Tagore |
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| | animesh1978 | Dec 25, 2007 1:58pm | The anti-thesis to "hurting life" kind of idea is that vegetables and plants are living being as well. Turnips, Radish, and Carrots do have flesh , Vegetables die after cutting them off from plants or trees. Dropped fruit (naturally dead) and ripe pulses/lentils/rice/beans/cereal are the only food that don't incur hurt on anything. Onion, Potato, and Garlic continue to grow after removing from soil.
This applies to both MKG and RNT's (incorrect) arguments.
I converted to vegetarian, but I think of it as a choice rather than justifying it on some moral ground. |
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| | zoskiaos | Dec 25, 2007 2:25pm | | Die writhing, bleeding and screaming, fruits and vegetables! |
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| | lotus9 | Dec 26, 2007 2:49am | Is killing a vegetable the same as killing an animal? Roshi Philip Kapleau's reply to that question is:
"...Does a potato cry out when it is taken from the earth the way a calf does when it is taken from its mother? Does a stick of celery scream in pain and terror when it is picked the way a pig does when it is led to slaughter and is having its throat cut?...
"...plants have consciousness of a sort, but this consciousness is obviously of a rudimentary kind, far different from that of mammals with well developed nervous systems...it is common observation that animals wince, howl, wail, and show terror when abused or injured and make every effort to avoid pain."
Since we cannot live without food, we try to select food that can be obtained without bloodshed. |
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| | animesh1978 | Dec 26, 2007 3:35pm | Lotus9 ... the problem with "plants suffering less" type of arguments is as follows:
* We don't know what sense organs plants have, but we do know them in a somewhat better way in animals. Thus, speech (cries), legs and arms (shivering/shaking) etc are expressed by animals and we can relate to it due to our own pains and experiences. Plants may be expressing their pain in a somewhat different way and till we find out *all the sense-organs* of plants, we cannot rule out that they don't feel pain.
One can live on a diet of "dropped fruit", "honey", "rightfully obtained milk", and "grains." Strict Sannyaasins of India do that. That would be the harmless diet. Like I said -- make vegetarianism as a choice and then you don't need to justify it. |
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Sponsor |  themasterchief | Dec 26, 2007 7:32pm | | ethical issues aside, how about the fact that it simply requires fewer resources to support a diet based on vegetables than one based on meat? or that there is less of a risk from salmonella, lysteria etc. as well as prion based diseases like Bovine spongiform encephalopathy [mad cow disease] or maybe a decrease in the use of antibiotics used in the raising of cattle which can and do contribute to certain antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria? |
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| | animesh1978 | Dec 26, 2007 8:09pm | That works the-master-chief. As per food pyramid arguments, veg. can support max. number of people on earth.
Aren't there some plant related diseases too? |
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| | lotus9 | Dec 26, 2007 10:29pm | Not everyone becomes a vegetarian for the same reason.
It is wonderful that you have (all) chosen to be a vegetarian. However, the moral reasons cannot be ignored. Because a person can be a vegetarian and still treat people and animals cruelly. To illustrate this point more clearly, Adolph Hitler was said to be a vegetarian for health reasons. Hitler was a dictator who caused the deaths of thousands and millions of people.
I've also heard of a case where someone was raised a vegetarian. But being ignorant of the ethical reasons behind it, he broke his vegetarian diet when he was an adult because his close friends were meat-eaters who kept persuading him to eat meat. Later he met some famous vegetarians and learnt from them. Then, upon realizing the moral grounds for observing vegetarianism, he was filled with deep regret and decided never to break his vegetarian diet again. |
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Vegetarians → Discussion